TOBUKAERU folding bike

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Permalink Reply by J on January 7, 2010 at 1:35pm

Matt, it's really going to depend on what the nature of your touring is going to be (ie terrain, autonomy, speed, etc.) but a few things immediately come to mind.

This is a pretty garden variety generic folder, designed for low speed, limited distance commuting. Ignoring the form factor for a moment, the components on it really aren't designed for longevity, high torque, or maximum reliability -- the latter usually being a pretty important factor when choosing a touring bike.

But it is a folder and that comes with obvious benefits. I've ridden folders like this quite a bit over the years, but I'm a fair bit smaller than you, and always have used them for short trips. So there are going to be two pretty big issues right away -- one is the lateral stiffness of the bike will be really compromised with that much weight and the other is the riding position for someone as tall as you is going to be extremely upright (not to mention the 150mm cranks). You won't really be able to ride no hands due to the fork rake/weight distribution, or stand up and pedal for any length of time due to the frame flex, and cornering will have to be made with caution if using panniers, etc.

I'd do a lot of testing with it before you take your first trip. Everyone has different expectations and need for a bike's handling and reliability. Personally, I would imagine both to be pretty bad with this bike for that use, but you might not feel the same way. And if foldability is a requirement for your needs, you'd have to pay at least twice as much for something that starts to look and feel more like a full sized tourer (a used Bike Friday, or a mid-range Dahon, for example).

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Permalink Reply by Dave Jacque on January 7, 2010 at 4:18pm

Dunno Matt. It's not really made for that kind of use. Overload it like that, and I bet the bike snaps like a toothpick after a couple of bumps.

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Permalink Reply by Ali on January 7, 2010 at 8:51pm

Weight limits work fine on paper but they are a completely different beasts in real world especially when you take engineering into effect. It is really hard to explain without getting too technical but I would be very careful about going on a tour with a folding Dahon. Just my 2 cents...

-Ali

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Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on January 7, 2010 at 10:43pm

Matt, as a structural engineer I can assure you there is a reason we use factors of safety. Especially for something like a bike that will see unpredictable dynamic loadings (i.e. hitting potholes).

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Permalink Reply by Ali on January 7, 2010 at 11:03pm

What she said!

-Ali

envane x said:

Matt, as a structural engineer I can assure you there is a reason we use factors of safety. Especially for something like a bike that will see unpredictable dynamic loadings (i.e. hitting potholes).

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Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on January 8, 2010 at 12:37am

Really, thanks for the input. Therefore, when I get a suitable trailer all will be well. The trailer is clearly the challenge now and quite an investment from Bike Friday.

Perhaps I'll stick to the bike exchange I was working on before for the Green Bay excursion. I think that I'm holding on to my purchase out of utter desperation however. I'm going to need it to get on the L or Metra during rush hour.

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Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on January 8, 2010 at 10:46am

BUT as far as loading the bike - yesterday I spoke with a rep from Bike Friday out in Oregon. On their bikes WHEEL WEIGHT is DIFFERENT than RIDER WEIGHT. Some bikes have flimsy wheels resulting in lower weight limits. This bike has a 28 spoke set of wheels. The lighter 190 lbs. limit of two Bike Friday the rep quoted had flimsier frames AND had 24 spoke wheels which tended to break spokes when overstressed.

The rep said also that racks could be loaded to their maximum tolerance without impacting the rider weight limit of 230 pounds.

Perhaps an addition of 4 spokes results in another 20 pounds of weight added to the tolerance.....then again perhaps not.

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Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on January 13, 2010 at 6:20am

Thanks J. I find your input invaluable.

Let's say the frame is strong enough for a set of panniers on the front and back and we've resolved that issue. Naturally I have plans to upgrade the wheels already.

1. I have an used 170 mm Campagnolo Mirage 52 tooth max triple crankset. Can I swap this for the existing 150 mm or is that a bad idea?
2. Can I also swap the Falcon front derailleur for my Mirage triple (Campy front triple derailleurs work on any setup according to Rivendell)?
3. Should I bother upgrading the components? The idea is that I eventually purchase a better frame. I'd also stick with the grip shifters in the long run.

Thanks!!

J said:

Matt, it's really going to depend on what the nature of your touring is going to be (ie terrain, autonomy, speed, etc.) but a few things immediately come to mind.

This is a pretty garden variety generic folder, designed for low speed, limited distance commuting. Ignoring the form factor for a moment, the components on it really aren't designed for longevity, high torque, or maximum reliability -- the latter usually being a pretty important factor when choosing a touring bike.

But it is a folder and that comes with obvious benefits. I've ridden folders like this quite a bit over the years, but I'm a fair bit smaller than you, and always have used them for short trips. So there are going to be two pretty big issues right away -- one is the lateral stiffness of the bike will be really compromised with that much weight and the other is the riding position for someone as tall as you is going to be extremely upright (not to mention the 150mm cranks). You won't really be able to ride no hands due to the fork rake/weight distribution, or stand up and pedal for any length of time due to the frame flex, and cornering will have to be made with caution if using panniers, etc.

I'd do a lot of testing with it before you take your first trip. Everyone has different expectations and need for a bike's handling and reliability. Personally, I would imagine both to be pretty bad with this bike for that use, but you might not feel the same way. And if foldability is a requirement for your needs, you'd have to pay at least twice as much for something that starts to look and feel more like a full sized tourer (a used Bike Friday, or a mid-range Dahon, for example).

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Permalink Reply by J on January 13, 2010 at 9:08am

0. The first thing I'd do is puts some miles on it unloaded. How does it handle? Is your riding position comfortable? Do the folding hinges flex too much? You don't want to put a lot of effort customizing something that isn't going to work, even in the short term.
1. If the stock is 150mm, 170s will very likely have severe pedal strike due to the low BB. But you can figure this out without swapping. Try doing tight, slow figure 8s. One way to make lengthening the cranks safer is to swap to narrower pedals.
2. Yes, you can -- but I'd do it more for aesthetic reasons than functional. The problem is the rear mech and shifters... well, and actually... frame flex is the bigger problem for the drivetrain.
3. Personally, If it basically fits and works as a low mileage city bike, I'd actually leave it completely stock.

Besides owning and riding several bike like this, I've also sold a similar model at the shop. http://taticycles.com/p/236 Like any basic Chinese bike, you will want to pay extra special attention to the cranks, bb, and headset as bearings are often too loose/too tight out of the factory, and cranks have a mysterious way of falling off spontaneously.

On fit, it's nice that this has a threadless stem because I suspect you may need to bring the cockpit up and out. A lot of these bikes are built for riders <5'6" and based on the photos, this may be the case. On a related note, if you have to bring the seatpost way up, watch for severe flex and/or get a replacement.

FWIW, I ended up simply selling our folders strictly to riders under 5'10"/180lbs (and even then it was a stretch), replacing the seatpost-saddle-pedals on all the bikes, and double checking everything on the build. Taking those precautions, they're performed really well and I was still able to sell them for $200 with fenders and a rack (granted, they were single speeds). But after looking at several dozen inexpensive models, my determination was that, at least for a shop, it would be a bad idea to spec something <$400 with gears as it would cause too many returns and/or maintenance.

Also, I'm not really sure the wheels will be the problem here. 28h 20" rims with reasonable tires? That may be the one thing that doesn't fail!

Good luck,

Matt M. said:

Thanks J. I find your input invaluable.

Let's say the frame is strong enough for a set of panniers on the front and back and we've resolved that issue. Naturally I have plans to upgrade the wheels already.

1. I have an used 170 mm Campagnolo Mirage 52 tooth max triple crankset. Can I swap this for the existing 150 mm or is that a bad idea?
2. Can I also swap the Falcon front derailleur for my Mirage triple (Campy front triple derailleurs work on any setup according to Rivendell)?
3. Should I bother upgrading the components? The idea is that I eventually purchase a better frame. I'd also stick with the grip shifters in the long run.

Thanks!!

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Permalink Reply by Matt M. 18.5KM on January 30, 2010 at 2:37pm

hmm....looking for a 4 arm 60 tooth chainring.....Of course I'd also like to win the lottery.

Bike is heavy as a tank - but that's the way I like it.

Progress:
-I fixed the front disc brake by aligning to the caliper with washers on the mount.
-I've put the seatpost together - it's telescoping and chromoly steel, 28.6mm bottom and 25.4mm top. Used a quick release seatclamp for the 25.4.
-Installed touring tires and swapped to Presta. I had to make my own shims from aluminum tubing to cut down on the Presta valves rattling in the Schraeder drilled deep v rims. The setup works great!
-Adjusted shifting (works well)

Bad so far:
-Pedal strike. I can use the pedals for a kickstand. So coasting and aggresive turning have to be at 3:00-9:00 and 12:00-6:00 respectively.

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