Winter 2015- who's still riding?

Traffic 'round these parts dropped off pretty dramatically a few weeks ago... hard to tell from the "I rode today" thread who's still riding, as one would have to conclude that Gene is the only one out there most days by reading it....

Who's sticking it out and plans to continue to ride pretty much every day regardless of weather?

(Was winter 2013; 2014 starts on p. 36; 2015 starts on p. 61)

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rich Evans on December 4, 2013 at 2:52pm

Of course, if you get 5 seasons out of those tires (not implausible for a winter commuter) you break about even. If CTA fares go up over the next few years (been known to happen), Divvy rates go up, or transfers are involved, the tires might (over the long term) actually be a better investment.

Also, before labeling anyone as an eltitist (and the thread seems to be coming pretty close to it on this point) for their decision to purchase/use expensive accessories, consider this fact: Many of us who do so are able to because of the money we saved, and continue to save, by foregoing car and public transit use. I did so out of necessity; now, about 20 yrs down the road, I probably could afford a car, but have chosen to continue to bike for transportation. Yes, some really bikes can run about $10k -- about the same as a crappy car, but with much lower accessory and operating costs. I seriously wonder how many of you who sneer at the "lycra commandos" now would pass up a car (because that's what it takes) when you have the chance, after riding a few winters.

I always thought that biking was many things, for many people, for many reasons. I always thought that we were all "on the same side." The judgmental tone of some of the comments on this thread, and the "my way is the only way" mentality that seems to be creeping out here, does make me wonder about that, though; and that kind of makes me sad.

h' 1.0 said:

It's hard for many of us to remember (if we ever knew) but for many people out there the equation is much simpler than this.... expensive bike accessory that could improve my safety, or food/ shelter.

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

It really comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. Is it worth the cost of studded tires, plus the time cost of installing and removing them, for the benefit of being able to ride 7 extra days in the winter? For most people, that answer is 'no'. We are fortunate enough to have a decent public transport system in this city and I certainly don't mind taking the 'L' on days when it's really icy. It's certainly cheaper than buying studded tires in addition to my every day tires.

$70.99 x 2 for tires vs $2.25 x 14 for the 'L'

$141.98 > $31.50

Hell, even a Divvy membership is cheaper at $75 and it's useful outside bad weather days.

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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on December 4, 2013 at 2:57pm

Mischaracterization. Purchasing and using expensive accessories does not make anyone an elitist.

Gloating over those expensive accessories and not understanding why =everyone= doesn't make the same choice does.

Rich Evans said:

Also, before labeling anyone as an eltitist (and the thread seems to be coming pretty close to it on this point) for their decision to purchase/use expensive accessories,

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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on December 4, 2013 at 3:00pm

What exactly are you referring to here?

Is it possible you haven't read enough of the thread to follow the discussion?

Rich Evans said:

I always thought that biking was many things, for many people, for many reasons. I always thought that we were all "on the same side." The judgmental tone of some of the comments on this thread, and the "my way is the only way" mentality that seems to be creeping out here, does make me wonder about that, though; and that kind of makes me sad.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on December 4, 2013 at 3:13pm

I don't need to say this because h' just said it better than I could but nobody is calling ANYONE elitist we are trying to make the point that many people can't make the choice to purchase certain things. To be able to enjoy the 'cost savings' you get from several seasons of good winter tires, the more expensive option, you have to have the extra capital to make that large purchase. I see cyclists, on a regular basis, who simply cannot afford to put on a tire that costs more then $20 on a bike that is their only means of transport.

I am not accusing you of being an elitist, I am accusing you of not understanding the reality of just how broke some people are.

Side note: It makes me feel uncomfortable to agree with h' this much.

h' 1.0 said:

Mischaracterization. Purchasing and using expensive accessories does not make anyone an elitist.

Gloating over those expensive accessories and not understanding why =everyone= doesn't make the same choice does.

Rich Evans said:

Also, before labeling anyone as an eltitist (and the thread seems to be coming pretty close to it on this point) for their decision to purchase/use expensive accessories,

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Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on December 4, 2013 at 3:20pm

Glad you got that out. It was making me feel all warm and fuzzy. Holiday spirit?

notoriousDUG said:

Side note: It makes me feel uncomfortable to agree with h' this much.

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Permalink Reply by Rich Evans on December 4, 2013 at 4:12pm

I didn't see anyone "Gloating over those expensive accessories and not understanding why =everyone= doesn't make the same choice does."

I did see someone point out that studded tires are one option, that worked for him. He was pretty much taken to task for even suggesting this, and most of the strident language in the thread came from the "some of us can't afford those, how dare you suggest it" responders. He defended his position, but never said or implied (and neither have I) that there was anything wrong with anyone who chose not to use these, or any other equipment.

I stand by my original post on this. As to Notorious Dug's accusation of "... of not understanding the reality of just how broke some people are," I beg to differ. As I mentioned earlier, I started regular Chicago bike commuting almost 20 years ago -- because I couldn't afford a car; I know very well what it is to be flat broke. By the time I could afford a car, I chose to forego the POS I could have bought, and used some of those savings to upgrade my ride. Yes, I've spent a lot, but never more than I had, and some times I would save for months (for an accessory) or years (for a new bike), while giving up other things.

Many of you are in similar situations now, or soon will be. Many of you who are calling (or hinting at) eltitist now will get that POS, because "it's just such a hassle without a car." You'll spend the money on gas, insurance, etc. as a "necessity," while calling bike upgrades a "luxury." I do understand that many of you don't have "an extra $180 laying around" right now, but I also understand that most of you are quite capable of socking away 15 bucks a month for a year (like I did) for a set next year. I also understand that it's hard, because I've been there, but that it's not as hard as biking through the winter, and doing it even when it's not fun, which I still do.

You don't want studded tires? Fine. Don't get them. I survived without them for the last 7 winters, and I'm still here. I did take more spills than I'd have liked, though, and find that it takes longer to bounce back each time it happens. I got a set for about $120, after shopping around in town and online for several months. it. They eat black ice like nobody's business, will probably save me a spill or two this winter, and don't slow me down that much.

That was the sum total of my "lack of understanding," Dug. I don't know your financial situation, let alone understand it, nor do I need to. You know riders who can't afford a tire over $20. Good for you; I've known some, too; and others who missed meals and cancelled dates to buy better parts. Both had about the same amount of dough, but different priorities. I respect both decisions.

The comments were about studded tires, period. Whether they are worth the cost (about the same as a few, to several, nights out; less than an IPad, or a monthly payment on a used car) is something that each rider needs to make for him or herself, and I never implied otherwise.

notoriousDUG said:

I don't need to say this because h' just said it better than I could but nobody is calling ANYONE elitist we are trying to make the point that many people can't make the choice to purchase certain things. To be able to enjoy the 'cost savings' you get from several seasons of good winter tires, the more expensive option, you have to have the extra capital to make that large purchase. I see cyclists, on a regular basis, who simply cannot afford to put on a tire that costs more then $20 on a bike that is their only means of transport.

I am not accusing you of being an elitist, I am accusing you of not understanding the reality of just how broke some people are.

Side note: It makes me feel uncomfortable to agree with h' this much.

h' 1.0 said:

Mischaracterization. Purchasing and using expensive accessories does not make anyone an elitist.

Gloating over those expensive accessories and not understanding why =everyone= doesn't make the same choice does.

Rich Evans said:

Also, before labeling anyone as an eltitist (and the thread seems to be coming pretty close to it on this point) for their decision to purchase/use expensive accessories,

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on December 4, 2013 at 4:41pm

You're making this way more personal on both ends than it really is.

Seriously.

There is a discussion about the accessibility of studded tires to a certain part of the cycling population and you seem to be taking it very personally yourself and making it very personal on my end. My statement has nothing to do with my own financial standing but with the fact that when we make expensive, but not necessary, things like studded tires, fancy clothing, snappy shoes and such seem like something you 'need' to ride a bike around we raise the barrier of entry in some people minds.

Rich Evans said:

I didn't see anyone "Gloating over those expensive accessories and not understanding why =everyone= doesn't make the same choice does."

I did see someone point out that studded tires are one option, that worked for him. He was pretty much taken to task for even suggesting this, and most of the strident language in the thread came from the "some of us can't afford those, how dare you suggest it" responders. He defended his position, but never said or implied (and neither have I) that there was anything wrong with anyone who chose not to use these, or any other equipment.

I stand by my original post on this. As to Notorious Dug's accusation of "... of not understanding the reality of just how broke some people are," I beg to differ. As I mentioned earlier, I started regular Chicago bike commuting almost 20 years ago -- because I couldn't afford a car; I know very well what it is to be flat broke. By the time I could afford a car, I chose to forego the POS I could have bought, and used some of those savings to upgrade my ride. Yes, I've spent a lot, but never more than I had, and some times I would save for months (for an accessory) or years (for a new bike), while giving up other things.

Many of you are in similar situations now, or soon will be. Many of you who are calling (or hinting at) eltitist now will get that POS, because "it's just such a hassle without a car." You'll spend the money on gas, insurance, etc. as a "necessity," while calling bike upgrades a "luxury." I do understand that many of you don't have "an extra $180 laying around" right now, but I also understand that most of you are quite capable of socking away 15 bucks a month for a year (like I did) for a set next year. I also understand that it's hard, because I've been there, but that it's not as hard as biking through the winter, and doing it even when it's not fun, which I still do.

You don't want studded tires? Fine. Don't get them. I survived without them for the last 7 winters, and I'm still here. I did take more spills than I'd have liked, though, and find that it takes longer to bounce back each time it happens. I got a set for about $120, after shopping around in town and online for several months.   it. They eat black ice like nobody's business, will probably save me a spill or two this winter, and don't slow me down that much.

That was the sum total of my "lack of understanding," Dug.  I don't know your financial situation, let alone understand it, nor do I need to. You know riders who can't afford a tire over $20. Good for you; I've known some, too; and others who missed meals and cancelled dates to buy better parts. Both had about the same amount of dough, but different priorities. I respect both decisions.

The comments were about studded tires, period. Whether they are worth the cost (about the same as a few, to several, nights out; less than an IPad, or a monthly payment on a used car) is something that each rider needs to make for him or herself, and I never implied otherwise.



notoriousDUG said:

I don't need to say this because h' just said it better than I could but nobody is calling ANYONE elitist we are trying to make the point that many people can't make the choice to purchase certain things. To be able to enjoy the 'cost savings' you get from several seasons of good winter tires, the more expensive option, you have to have the extra capital to make that large purchase. I see cyclists, on a regular basis, who simply cannot afford to put on a tire that costs more then $20 on a bike that is their only means of transport.

I am not accusing you of being an elitist, I am accusing you of not understanding the reality of just how broke some people are.

Side note: It makes me feel uncomfortable to agree with h' this much.

h' 1.0 said:

Mischaracterization. Purchasing and using expensive accessories does not make anyone an elitist.

Gloating over those expensive accessories and not understanding why =everyone= doesn't make the same choice does.

Rich Evans said:

Also, before labeling anyone as an eltitist (and the thread seems to be coming pretty close to it on this point) for their decision to purchase/use expensive accessories,

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Permalink Reply by Fuegofan on December 4, 2013 at 5:00pm

On a completely different note, enjoy the heat as it looks like this is the last hot day for a week. And watch for slippery streets as mist brings out the oil up from the street but doesn't have the volume to move it away.

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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on December 4, 2013 at 7:34pm

Rich,

You have clearly missed some key points of the discussion here. Probably not your fault-- the forum format is very clunky and hard to follow and we're all hoping it will be improved with the reboot.

Rich Evans said:

I didn't see anyone "Gloating over those expensive accessories and not understanding why =everyone= doesn't make the same choice does."

I did see someone point out that studded tires are one option, that worked for him. He was pretty much taken to task for even suggesting this, and most of the strident language(etc.)

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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on December 4, 2013 at 7:35pm

Weren't they predicting that this past week was supposed to be extremely cold?

Fuegofan said:

On a completely different note, enjoy the heat as it looks like this is the last hot day for a week. And watch for slippery streets as mist brings out the oil up from the street but doesn't have the volume to move it away.