The Chainlink

Help me find examples of old steel hybrids

I'm in the market for an old steel hybrid (or just a frame) for my 2 speed project. After wasting a lot of time trying to unseize a seat post on an old Trek 800 Mountain Track, my dear brother suggested a 700c instead of a 26". That suggestion makes a ton of sense as my 3 speed rolls 700c and therefore I'd have spare wheels and I could swap the tires, just stock one size of spare tubes etc.

What I need help with, dear Chainlinkers, is finding examples of what I'm looking for so when I post to the Marketplace and Craig's I can cite those names as the kinds of bike/frame I'm looking for.

Also, if you have a tall version of a bike or frame that meets the requirements we can cut the process short by just selling me the bike or frame. :)

Must have:

- horizontal dropouts 

- 700 c 

- tall enough for a 6' 3" rider. (22"+)

Nice to have:

- canti brake bosses

- lots of braze-ons for racks and fenders

- rigid fork

So help me refine the search. I'm also happy to entertain suggestions about the list of requirements. My goal is to build a 2 speed, year-round commuter/utility bike. The initial build might be a SS/fixed that I'll ride while I'm building the rear wheel.

I've had a load of trouble with fender clearance using an old road bike frame for my 3 speed build, so to avoid that, and so that I'd have more room to experiment with different tires I'd like the extra room afforded by a hybrid frame. 

EDIT: per this discussion http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-713011.html the 7XX series Trek Multi-Tracks sound like the kind of thing I'm looking for.

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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on November 5, 2012 at 2:57am

Nope... took a peek at my 790 while doing laundry and no horizontal dropouts.  Not sure that that exists as hybrids came along in the late 80s and horizontal dropouts were more of a 70s thing, no?

Tony Adams said:

Also it looks like those are not horizontal dropouts?

http://www.reachoo.com/ads/76244596?utm_source=yakaz

h' said:

Disagree strongly. $265 is a very good price for that bike, and not just for someone interested in the collectability. It's barely ridden, US made butted cro-moly. Original retail probably $600, and well worth it at the time. If it's got the original wheels, which I presume it does, they're basically bomb-proof.

Anyways... good to know about the $100 ceiling.  Definitely a needle in a haystack you're looking for.



Tony Adams said:

Nice find! thanks Howard. It seems a bit too nice to hack up into a frankentility bike though. $265 seems crazy high for that bike - although if it really is near mint then I suppose it may be worth that much to a collector. It would be kind of awesome to start the project with a made in Wisconsin frame, but my current budget would rules out dropping any more than $100 or so on the donor.

h' said:

Well lookee here... it may even be your size:

http://for-sale.yakaz.com/trek-750-bike#lo=4&docid=000cl6g3mlv6...

Permalink Reply by spencewine on November 5, 2012 at 7:50am
Other hybrids of that era:

Schwinn CrissCross
Miyata Triple Cross
Bianchi advantage

I'm pretty sure all have vertical drops.

Specialized made a bike called "Street Stomper" for one year (1988). It is kind of a hybrid precursor/urban assault bike. It has a hybrid geometry, w/ horizontal drops, but 26" wheels. I have one, but not in your size.

I think your only option if you want horizontal drops is to go with a MTB.
Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on November 5, 2012 at 8:40am

Wah! Then perhaps the question becomes, MTB, or another old touring frame, but just make sure that the old touring frame has enough clearance for fenders - so cantilever brake mounts.

If you were building an urban commuter/utility bike from the frame up, would you want 26" or 700c wheels? (Or something else?) One advantage for me for 700c (or 27" actually) is that I already have bikes with those size wheels so I'd have some spares around and could swap tires around etc. What else? A factor I haven't mentioned is that I'm pushing 225 lbs these days, so a really strong rear wheel is a requirement. I'll be building it, so it will be pretty good - but is 26" just inherently stronger because it is smaller? 

Thanks for helping me explore my options.



spencewine said:

Other hybrids of that era:
...

I'm pretty sure all have vertical drops.
...
I think your only option if you want horizontal drops is to go with a MTB.
Permalink Reply by Juan Primo on November 5, 2012 at 9:00am

I think you will find more things available in a MTB at your price range than an old touring frame with canti bosses.  Actually, there are no "old touring frames" on the market.  Only "vintage touring frames"... which cost more.

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on November 5, 2012 at 9:08am

Good point! I got my pretty great '82 Schwinn Voyageur for $100 a few years ago, but the Voyageur got way better in just a couple of years. By '84 or so they had canti bosses and nicer steel, but they are highly sought after and of course they cost a lot more.

Juan Primo said:

I think you will find more things available in a MTB at your price range than an old touring frame with canti bosses.  Actually, there are no "old touring frames" on the market.  Only "vintage touring frames"... which cost more.

Permalink Reply by Legacy Frameworks on November 5, 2012 at 9:47am

I've had an old frame+(I think I have one wheel for it and it is missing the seat post and left crank arm)  like you describe bumping around for a while, just looked at it to get the specifics. 

Univega Activa Action, Tange Chromolly, Canti/v-brake Studs, Horizontal DO, 700c wheels, fender mounts front and rear, rack mounts only in rear.

Unfortunately for you it measures about 17" c-c.

Looks like this, but more paint dings. 

Hit me up with any offers.

Also, your "two speed project" is that going to be a SA kick back 2 speed hub? My wife has one that is the rim brake version and does not like it very much, but I have heard the people like the coaster brake version better.

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on November 5, 2012 at 9:58am

 "Your Google Alert on site:chicago.craigslist.com activa has been created."

Thanks! That frame would be perfect if it was larger! Good to know that there are some needles out there in haystacks! 

And yes, a 2 spd SA kick back hub. I was sort of assuming I'd go the coaster route as a guiding principle for this build is to minimize cables and moving parts in general. It is a tough trade-off though as a coaster makes fixing a rear flat a bit more troublesome. And as Sheldon notes, there are some other negatives to the coaster brake: your chain becomes a point of failure and three are really only two optimal crank positions for coaster braking. 

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on November 5, 2012 at 11:48am

Here is a  Trek 700 in my price range that looks like it might have horizontal dropouts:

http://rockford.craigslist.org/bik/3347705798.html

Perhaps the vertical dropouts were a new feature that was rolled out on the fancier made in USA versions?

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on November 5, 2012 at 11:52am

I don't think that bike has horizontal dropouts.  I would personally not invest in a Trek 700 frame even at that price.

Tony Adams said:

Here is a  Trek 700 in my price range that looks like it might have horizontal dropouts:

http://rockford.craigslist.org/bik/3347705798.html

Perhaps the vertical dropouts were a new feature that was rolled out on the fancier made in USA versions?

Permalink Reply by Bikefreeek on November 5, 2012 at 1:24pm

That's the one you're looking for if you can find it in your size. It's made of double butted cromo and has decent drop outs even though no derailleur hanger (all the better for your project).

Here's one that I built into a ss/fix conversion

I haven't been too impressed with the new 2 speed kickback Sturmey Archer hubs. Not enough of a gear ratio for my taste and the freewheel one is not predictable at all for gear changes.

Tony Adams said:

Here is a  Trek 700 in my price range that looks like it might have horizontal dropouts:

http://rockford.craigslist.org/bik/3347705798.html

Perhaps the vertical dropouts were a new feature that was rolled out on the fancier made in USA versions?

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on November 5, 2012 at 1:33pm

Cool. Looks like lots of eyelets too! If I get one we'll all just have to agree to keep it a secret from Howard so he won't be disappointed. :)

Thanks for reporting your experience with the SA hub - for commuting in Chicago I'm *almost* happy with a single speed. I'd just like a little help getting up over the occasional bridge or when fighting a big headwind. I have a three speed now and pretty much never use the top gear. Ideally I'd like a two speed that has a low gear and a direct drive rather than a direct drive and a high gear. But I think I can get essentially the same result by using a smallish chainring.

Also I LOVE LOVE LOVE the "REK". I reserve the right to steal the idea if I end up with a Trek donor.


Bikefreeek said:

That's the one you're looking for if you can find it in your size. It's made of double butted cromo and has decent drop outs even though no derailleur hanger (all the better for your project).

Here's one that I built into a ss/fix conversion

I haven't been too impressed with the new 2 speed kickback Sturmey Archer hubs. Not enough of a gear ratio for my taste and the freewheel one is not predictable at all for gear changes.

Tony Adams said:

Here is a  Trek 700 in my price range that looks like it might have horizontal dropouts:

http://rockford.craigslist.org/bik/3347705798.html

Perhaps the vertical dropouts were a new feature that was rolled out on the fancier made in USA versions?

Permalink Reply by Legacy Frameworks on November 5, 2012 at 3:12pm

I find that people don't realize, or appreciate the sheer range of gears you can have with a single speed or IGH. 

With an approximate range of 38-56 Tooth Chainrings and 13-22 Tooth Sprockets you can achieve a ratio range from 4.3:1 down to 1.7:1 


Tony Adams said:

Cool. Looks like lots of eyelets too! If I get one we'll all just have to agree to keep it a secret from Howard so he won't be disappointed. :)

Thanks for reporting your experience with the SA hub - for commuting in Chicago I'm *almost* happy with a single speed. I'd just like a little help getting up over the occasional bridge or when fighting a big headwind. I have a three speed now and pretty much never use the top gear. Ideally I'd like a two speed that has a low gear and a direct drive rather than a direct drive and a high gear. But I think I can get essentially the same result by using a smallish chainring.

Also I LOVE LOVE LOVE the "REK". I reserve the right to steal the idea if I end up with a Trek donor.



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