The Chainlink

The shoaling thread - understanding this phenomenon

To clean up other threads, let's have our CIVIL thoughts/opinions/discussion on shoaling.

Obviously it bugs people when it is repetitive and puts a faster rider in a situation where taking the lane to pass is the only option, thus subjecting someone to a great risk of injury.  Others don't care either because they adjust their speed or weren't going that fast in the first place.

Perhaps some ground rules to the discussion?

1.  Shoaling, in this arena, is the act of moving to the front of a rider/group of riders in an attempt to get to the front of a mass of riders and then proceeding at a slower speed than originally held by the group, thus causing riders to pass.  This is to happen more than once on a stretch of road. 

2.  Shoaling is not (to be changed if needed) a faster rider moving to the front of a rider/group of riders knowing they will accelerate faster than the other riders, therefore not causing potentially unsafe passing.

3.  Assume people either for or against the act of shoaling isn't form a self-righteous position.

4.  Civil disagreements can ensue, mods can feel free to stop a train before it derails the thread completely.  That also means NO personal attacks, if someone freely admits to being a shoaler for what ever reason, they should feel safe stating their position and why they do it.

5.  State your case/thoughts/opinions/constructive criticism and let others respond.  If your response is going to be too long, a cliff notes Tl;Dr would be appreciated at the beginning or end of your post.

6.  Lets remember we all share something in common (myself very much included) and we very well could run into each other out on the street riding.  If it is kept civil here, it will be civil out there despite our different position on shoaling.

I, for one, am excited to read other's thoughts and so on, on this topic.  I am also open to learning something new and how I can best avoid having animosity towards other cyclists.

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Permalink Reply by curt(is) locke on September 30, 2014 at 11:33am

Hypothetically. However, has this ever actually happened to you or anyone you know of personally?

Anne Alt said:

In some situations, especially if you and the other rider don't know each other's riding habits and level of skills, or if you're just not comfortable with someone riding that close, it can be dangerous and cause crashes.

Ifi Susana said:

It is rude to draft of someone without their permission. Drafting it self is not rude, but for some drafting is extremely worrisome and they are not comfortable having someone on their wheel. I personally love pulling people, but am quite bad at it,. However, you technically should ask if you can draft. 

Permalink Reply by Ifi Susana on September 30, 2014 at 12:09pm
Yes- it has happened to me. I was riding in an organized century and found a person who was riding a great pace- not too fast not too slow. I started drafting her for some miles and then she asked me not to draft off her. At first I though she was being a jerk, as I am use to group riding. However, I remember when I first started it would make me extremely nervous to have some one on my tail because my handling skills were poor. My partner actually crashed hitting my rear wheel because I made a very sloppy pause and he has very solid handling skills. Now that I am more comfortable with riding close to someone, I can also let them know when I am making a sudden move or whatnot. I am also better at following someone with sloppy skills. That said I would not want someone to draft off me if they are going cross my wheel.

Also I meant in general drafting off someone without their say so is rude and even though shoaling me is rude, I would rather not draft off them because 1- they have consistently shown they do not follow the common etiquette of riding with others 2-in my case I think I have been shoal out of aggression rather then ignorance so why would I put myself in danger 3-countering rudeness with rudeness it's a strategy I particularly like.
Permalink Reply by ad on September 30, 2014 at 12:11pm

I've personally watched a few crashes happen (or seen the immediate aftermath) on group charity rides/centuries where someone started sucking a wheel that didn't know what they were doing, which ultimately resulted in a crash.  Luckily, most of the time only the rear cyclist that wasn't protecting his/her front wheel will go down.  

It's still pretty bad form to do it anywhere, especially city streets, without permission.    

Watching crashes happen a few times has made me comment to people when I catch them drafting/sucking on my wheel on City streets or a multi-use path (and by drafting, I mean someone who insists on latching on with a less than a foot gap between wheels).  I generally either speed up and see if I can drop the person, and, if I can't drop them and they keep sucking on my wheel, I will generally say something when we hit a stop light.  If I'm on a multi-use path, I just start to slow down after singling what I'm doing to the point where drafting me isn't worth it and the person passes.      

curt(is) locke said:

Hypothetically. However, has this ever actually happened to you or anyone you know of personally?

Anne Alt said:

In some situations, especially if you and the other rider don't know each other's riding habits and level of skills, or if you're just not comfortable with someone riding that close, it can be dangerous and cause crashes.

Ifi Susana said:

It is rude to draft of someone without their permission. Drafting it self is not rude, but for some drafting is extremely worrisome and they are not comfortable having someone on their wheel. I personally love pulling people, but am quite bad at it,. However, you technically should ask if you can draft. 

Permalink Reply by Ifi Susana on September 30, 2014 at 12:21pm
I definitely tail close behind to see if I can pass or not, but I won't ride so close that I am drafting. I will leave a yard of space between us or if there is room ride to the left of them so they can see that I am approaching. Idk I can usually tell from a distance if I can pass or not.


J.A.W. said:

I don't think so.

If someone passes me just for the sake of passing, and not going any faster after that, then I will draft the heck out of that person. The way I see it, if they think they're fast enough to pass me and be in front of me, then they should go faster than the speed that lets me draft off them.

On the other hand, there will also be times when I creep up behind a person and draft for a while to see if I can pass or not. If not, then I'll continue to draft, if yes, again, I'll be prepared to be drafted.

I'm just saying, if I pass someone, I'm prepared to be drafted by that person. If you don't want to be drafted, then go faster.... or slower!

I do announce that I pass, most of the time. Some other time, I will ring my bell.

With that said, I rode the ACC this past weekend and the people I rode with came up with a good idea for people who shoal that they should announce their intentions as well. You know, something along the line:   "Shoaling!"


Ifi Susana said:

It is rude to draft of someone without their permission. Drafting it self is not rude, but for some drafting is extremely worrisome and they are not comfortable having someone on their wheel. I personally love pulling people, but am quite bad at it,. However, you technically should ask if you can draft. 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on September 30, 2014 at 12:31pm

Yes, I had a crash caused by this. Group ride - guy was right on my wheel after I'd yelled at him previously and told him to stay away from me. 

If someone asks you NOT to draft them, please respect that request. There's more than one reason why someone might not want it. Have some courtesy and give 'em space if they ask for it.

curt(is) locke said:

Hypothetically. However, has this ever actually happened to you or anyone you know of personally?

Anne Alt said:

In some situations, especially if you and the other rider don't know each other's riding habits and level of skills, or if you're just not comfortable with someone riding that close, it can be dangerous and cause crashes.


Permalink Reply by Mike Schwab on September 30, 2014 at 12:34pm

"Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way. " - General George S. Patton.
http://www.generalpatton.com/quotes/ 4th from the bottom.

Permalink Reply by millenial removing Bernie tattoo on September 30, 2014 at 12:38pm

Between all the sudden obstacles (turning vehicles, pedestrians, car doors) and massive potholes, drafting random people on most Chicago streets is a terrible idea.

Permalink Reply by Tandemonium on September 30, 2014 at 1:04pm
Don't forget geese on LFP. I once was following a guy too close, goose darted out, down we went.


envane (69 furlongs) said:

Between all the sudden obstacles (turning vehicles, pedestrians, car doors) and massive potholes, drafting random people on most Chicago streets is a terrible idea.

Permalink Reply by Chitown_Mike on September 30, 2014 at 1:21pm

Now is it wrong to draft someone who has repeated shoaled you because it is not currently safe to pass?

I try not to but sometimes a shoaler riders soooo slow that I can't help but draft them, even at a speed that drafting is useless.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on September 30, 2014 at 1:38pm

Yep

Jeff Schneider said:

+1000

envane (69 furlongs) said:

Between all the sudden obstacles (turning vehicles, pedestrians, car doors) and massive potholes, drafting random people on most Chicago streets is a terrible idea.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on September 30, 2014 at 1:39pm

Dogs and small children, too.

Tandemonium said:

Don't forget geese on LFP. I once was following a guy too close, goose darted out, down we went.


envane (69 furlongs) said:

Between all the sudden obstacles (turning vehicles, pedestrians, car doors) and massive potholes, drafting random people on most Chicago streets is a terrible idea.

Permalink Reply by daWillinChi on September 30, 2014 at 1:57pm

That depends on whether or not they stated their intentions of shoaling.

Chitown_Mike said:

Now is it wrong to draft someone who has repeated shoaled you because it is not currently safe to pass?

I try not to but sometimes a shoaler riders soooo slow that I can't help but draft them, even at a speed that drafting is useless.

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