BIKE HELMET SURVEY- PLEASE HELP!!!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 18, 2014 at 8:35am

AND last but not least, the goal of our campaign is to encourage people to wear helmets not only when they bike in the city, but when they ride in the park or around the house or wherever. The idea is to wear a helmet regardless of where you bike. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

It is really difficult for me to understand your logic in that case but I don't have to. But I disagree- if everyone followed your logic, no one would drive since they have to buckle up because it is the law- everyone would have thought that driving is so dangerous since they need to have seat belts on. And yes biking in the city can be dangerous because there are so many external factors you can't control even when the infrastructure and other things you talk about are fixed. Plus you might just fall off the bike and it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. If you are past the helmet discussion then I don't understand why this discussion is happening. You might be past it but the numbers and stats don't lie and that is why the Brain Injury Association realized that there is a need for such campaign. They didn't come up with it because they got bored, they see how many victims suffer just because they didn't have a helmet on. Plus the BIA has nothing to do with infrastructure so I don't understand why you still keep telling me about the infrastructure improvements. And also, as I've mentioned, if you think that fixed infrastructure is all you need to keep you safe, then I don't know what to say.

Nick G said:

The problem is that by attaching the thought "you should be wearing a helmet" to an activity, whether it's biking or walking or driving, you are implicitly saying that this particular activity is inherently unsafe, i.e. dangerous.  This is a bigger problem than you realize, because the majority of people FEAR dangerous activities (or what they're TOLD are dangerous activities) and that makes them less likely to engage in said activity, whether there's a tangible risk or not.  I (and I think Dug too) would like to see many more people on bikes, and to see bikes regain an equal footing with all other forms of transportation, and fear does nothing to help, and actually is completely contrary to this goal.  The answer is not protecting people who have to deal with the nation's crappy bike infrastructure, the answer is creating BETTER infrastructure so cyclists can feel more safe while getting where they need to go.  Yes, helmets can help head injuries; no one here is so dense that they can't see that.  We are simply past the helmet discussion already, and we need to focus on infrastructure improvements to help ordinary people see that cycling is NOT dangerous and that it CAN be a legitimate form of transportation.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

By encouraging people to wear helmets we do not try to convince them that riding is dangerous but we are trying to raise awareness that brain injuries are a serious problem, and wearing helmets can really help. Falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries so I think it really makes sense. Do not read too much into it, we are not against biking- we just want to show people that something simple as a bike helmet can really be a gamechanger. There are so many different factors bicyclists can't control while riding so why not control what you can- that's the idea.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 18, 2014 at 9:21am

What are those numbers?

What is the percentage of people who suffer debilitating brain injuries from bicycle crashes?

Driving a car is thought of as a safe activity even though the numbers say you have a pretty good chance of being injured in a car over your lifetime.  This has to do with how society perceives a presents driving a car.  In fact your argument here is kind of proof of what I am saying; people drive cars all the time even though it is statistically pretty dangerous,  There are tons of laws requiring us to wear safety equipment when we drive, or that cars have to be FULL of safety equipment designed to help us survive in them.  This is because, over all, in our culture cars are perceived as 'safe.'

The flip side is that  bikes, while fairly safe on their own, are perceived as dangerous and things like pushing helmets as required to be safe on a bike only reinforce that issue and keeps people scared of riding.

The worst head injury I ever received was in a car, I know other people who have had pretty bad head injuries in car wrecks as well.  Are you going to be pushing to educate people that they should wear helmets in their car as well?  I am sure that percentage wise there are fewer traumatic head injuries in car accidents because people get to be in their nice little safety cage but I bet just basic numbers you would be preventing more injuries by pushing ot have everyone who drives wear a helmet.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

AND last but not least, the goal of our campaign is to encourage people to wear helmets not only when they bike in the city, but when they ride in the park or around the house or wherever. The idea is to wear a helmet regardless of where you bike. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

It is really difficult for me to understand your logic in that case but I don't have to. But I disagree- if everyone followed your logic, no one would drive since they have to buckle up because it is the law- everyone would have thought that driving is so dangerous since they need to have seat belts on. And yes biking in the city can be dangerous because there are so many external factors you can't control even when the infrastructure and other things you talk about are fixed. Plus you might just fall off the bike and it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. If you are past the helmet discussion then I don't understand why this discussion is happening. You might be past it but the numbers and stats don't lie and that is why the Brain Injury Association realized that there is a need for such campaign. They didn't come up with it because they got bored, they see how many victims suffer just because they didn't have a helmet on. Plus the BIA has nothing to do with infrastructure so I don't understand why you still keep telling me about the infrastructure improvements. And also, as I've mentioned, if you think that fixed infrastructure is all you need to keep you safe, then I don't know what to say.

Nick G said:

The problem is that by attaching the thought "you should be wearing a helmet" to an activity, whether it's biking or walking or driving, you are implicitly saying that this particular activity is inherently unsafe, i.e. dangerous.  This is a bigger problem than you realize, because the majority of people FEAR dangerous activities (or what they're TOLD are dangerous activities) and that makes them less likely to engage in said activity, whether there's a tangible risk or not.  I (and I think Dug too) would like to see many more people on bikes, and to see bikes regain an equal footing with all other forms of transportation, and fear does nothing to help, and actually is completely contrary to this goal.  The answer is not protecting people who have to deal with the nation's crappy bike infrastructure, the answer is creating BETTER infrastructure so cyclists can feel more safe while getting where they need to go.  Yes, helmets can help head injuries; no one here is so dense that they can't see that.  We are simply past the helmet discussion already, and we need to focus on infrastructure improvements to help ordinary people see that cycling is NOT dangerous and that it CAN be a legitimate form of transportation.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

By encouraging people to wear helmets we do not try to convince them that riding is dangerous but we are trying to raise awareness that brain injuries are a serious problem, and wearing helmets can really help. Falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries so I think it really makes sense. Do not read too much into it, we are not against biking- we just want to show people that something simple as a bike helmet can really be a gamechanger. There are so many different factors bicyclists can't control while riding so why not control what you can- that's the idea.

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Permalink Reply by David Barish on March 18, 2014 at 10:21am

Hmm. Just read the pages here. We have multiple threads yea/nay on helmets and the discussion between Aleks and Dug belongs there. Its a valid discussion. I have long been one of the pro helmet nerds on this forum but certainly understand a fear of promoting cycling as more dangerous than it really is.

I think this thread is about the survey. I filled it out but was not sure about its structure. I am not sure what kind of data you are looking for but felt very boxed in by choices about where I primarily do things as multiple answers were correct. I was also surprised by how short the survey is. I wondered whether there are more answers you need. I think you miss nuance you may be searching for. For example, I am a helmet nerd. Yet, I have ridden without one. I was stuck somewhere. I had forgot my helmet. I tried out somebody else's bike. I ride around the block to see if the repair I made was correct. etc. If you are looking to say that there are different patterns in city and suburbs I suspect your survey will give you that answer. If you are  looking for when people do and when people don't or if you are looking for what would change people's minds- fashion, comfort, ease of use, disposable (a Divvy related issue) or other, you may need questions to help you obtain richer data.  

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on March 18, 2014 at 11:08am

I think this particular topic-creep commenced with the OP.

1. Join the chainlink.

2. An hour later, post a survey.  

3. Fail to search or completely ignore multiple threads regarding helmets and safety. 

"Here's my bias." Add some gratuitous condescension. "Here's my biased survey."  

David Barish said:

Hmm. Just read the pages here. We have multiple threads yea/nay on helmets and the discussion between Aleks and Dug belongs there. Its a valid discussion. I have long been one of the pro helmet nerds on this forum but certainly understand a fear of promoting cycling as more dangerous than it really is.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle S on March 18, 2014 at 11:25am

I answered the survey and am chuckling that the highest age category is "35+".

 

There are many factors that go into people's decisions about when and whether to wear a helmet, as I'm sure you're finding out, Aleks. Good luck with your project!

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on March 18, 2014 at 11:47am

I think it commenced even before OP joined. His client, the Brain Injury Asssociation, is an industry trade group with an agenda. This survey is just another way to push their agenda. While their intention is good (reduce brain injuries) their approach is so narrow and their solution so simple-minded (wear a helmet) that it loses relevance to the broader discussion of bicycling safety. 

And if that survey is the result of what they teach OP at Loyola, I would consider asking for my tuition payments back.  That is one ill-defined survey.

Kevin C said:

I think this particular topic-creep commenced with the OP.

1. Join the chainlink.

2. An hour later, post a survey.  

3. Fail to search or completely ignore multiple threads regarding helmets and safety. 

"Here's my bias." Add some gratuitous condescension. "Here's my biased survey."  

David Barish said:

Hmm. Just read the pages here. We have multiple threads yea/nay on helmets and the discussion between Aleks and Dug belongs there. Its a valid discussion. I have long been one of the pro helmet nerds on this forum but certainly understand a fear of promoting cycling as more dangerous than it really is.

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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on March 18, 2014 at 12:31pm

This discussion is turning out to be a great education for Aleks in why paid/professional advocates stay as far away from online discussions as possible. Nice work everyone :-)

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Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 18, 2014 at 12:50pm

haha if that is your goal then what can I say, I feel sorry for you. These professionals at least are trying to do something and I wonder if you are active and do anything to improve the community or change something or all you do is actually hide behind the computer screen where no one can see you and tell others what they should do and what they do wrong. 

I'm not going to address all the ridiculous accusations that appeared in different posts because it would be a waste of time. Yes, I signed up only because I wanted to post the survey but I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Everyone has different opinions and views but they all should be respected and responded to in a little different manner than many of you have done. Also, I'm a student and I STILL LEARN, and yes the survey maybe might have been better or done differently, but it is a part of a learning process. 

Thanks to those who filled out the survey.

h' 1.0 said:

This discussion is turning out to be a great education for Aleks in why paid/professional advocates stay as far away from online discussions as possible. Nice work everyone :-)

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Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on March 18, 2014 at 12:59pm

Personally, I'd be thrilled if paid/professional advocates and commercial enterprises stayed away from the chainlink's forum. "Oh look! A ready-made 10,000 member focus group."

h' 1.0 said:

This discussion is turning out to be a great education for Aleks in why paid/professional advocates stay as far away from online discussions as possible. Nice work everyone :-)

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Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on March 18, 2014 at 1:00pm

Just filled out the survey and agree it was not very clear for me how to answer some of the questions.

Like do I ride in the city or neighborhoods? To me that's the same thing, I ride in neighborhoods in the city.

Also note google forms allows you to send people to a different question depending on how they answer.  I wear a helmet 99% of time (typically if I forget it. I even take it with me if there is a chance I will divvy that day). So the last question, what would encourage you to wear a helmet doesn't apply to me.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Talbert on March 18, 2014 at 1:26pm

When I tried to submit, my browser timed out

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 18, 2014 at 1:34pm

Bikes are for children and young people who race don't you know...

Michelle Stenzel said:

I answered the survey and am chuckling that the highest age category is "35+".

 

There are many factors that go into people's decisions about when and whether to wear a helmet, as I'm sure you're finding out, Aleks. Good luck with your project!

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