Did NPR go too far when they fired Juan Williams?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on
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I didn't put words into your mouth and I know that the firing had to do with the terms of his contract (or rather what seems to not have been clarified by the contract). If I didn't I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. In spite of this, the opinions regarding the matter don't seem to focus on this detail as is evidenced by some of the comments in this very discussion. I don't think I'm the one throwing ideological stones.
Craig S. said:Don't put words in my mouth, Michael, or think you understand what I might mean. I could parse your words just as easily however it's not relevant here.
Juan Williams, by presenting personal opinion in his role as a journalist, contracted to National Public Radio, violated the terms of his contract -- those details which have been reported -- as a journalist with NPR. How much simpler do you need it?
There was actually a very long and tiresome discussion about this on the BBC yesterday afternoon by media experts and journalists who are a lot more knowledgeable about this than you or I.
Seems to me that you're here throwing ideological stones trying to create an argument.
Michael Perz said:If by "violating the journalistic code of ethics" you really mean "appearing on the media outlet of the enemy" or "admitting to an incorrect opinion", then you're right. However, the ultimate determination whether or not his firing was justified lays in the terms of his contract with NPR - something nobody seems to be focusing on when presenting their opinions on this subject.
It's no secret that NPR often tilts left as do many of its listeners. I'd simply like to see how feverish the defenders of their action to fire Williams would be if this story had such a twist. It isn't as if anyone is focusing on the relevant details anyway.
Craig S. said:All right, Michael, I'll bite.
I'm probably your average NPR listener; I am an avid consumer of their news programming as well as their cultural programming and I support my local public radio station. What sort of ideological knot are you hoping I'll tie myself into?
Mr. Williams violated NPR's journalistic code of ethics, repeatedly, which is why he was sacked.
Michael Perz said:It's too bad that he wasn't represented by some journalists' union that contested the firing and turned this into a labor relations fiasco, because I would love to see the average NPR listener twist themselves into ideological knots trying to make sense of it all.
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Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on
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Contractually, Williams was an at will employee and there isn't any question that NPR was within its rights to fire him.
I don't think they were right to fire him. He's been saying nonsense on Fox for years and had a reasonable expectation that he would be allowed to do so. I also think that while what he said was bigoted, it wasn't so bad that he should have been fired for it in the absence of a pattern of other bigoted statements. On the other hand, I think he should have been fired years ago for being lame and stinking up the airwaves.
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Can someone please point to the bigotry in Juan Williams' statement? All I got out of it was that he harbors an unfounded, irrational fear of people dressed in "traditional Muslim garb", whatever the hell that means. He even qualified it by admitting it was wrong to feel that way. This somehow constitutes bigotry? How?
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Permalink Reply by Craig S. on
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Really?
Michael Perz said:
If by "violating the journalistic code of ethics" you really mean "appearing on the media outlet of the enemy" or "admitting to an incorrect opinion", then you're right.
I suppose you're right, you're just making an informed inference with my words, right?
By the way, I was wrong, Ken Gray was asking for opinions on the matter in his original post.
Personally I don't give two shits that he was fired. I feel he is an exceptionally poor journalist for a variety of reasons, the foremost of which is not even his incessant whining, and I always turned the radio dial whenever he came on.
I also don't feel what he said was bigoted; he presented his personal opinion and that was the no-no as he was representing another news organization. He was the token "liberal" on a network that presents themselves falsely as a news organization. Had FOX rightly presented themselves as a network of opinion and Mr. Williams not been identified with NPR in the lower third but rather as a FOX analyst, then there would be no grounds for his dismissal.
This is all just my opinion of course and I'm gone.
Cheers and coffee ahoy!
Michael Perz said:I didn't put words into your mouth and I know that the firing had to do with the terms of his contract (or rather what seems to not have been clarified by the contract). If I didn't I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place. In spite of this, the opinions regarding the matter don't seem to focus on this detail as is evidenced by some of the comments in this very discussion. I don't think I'm the one throwing ideological stones.
Craig S. said:Don't put words in my mouth, Michael, or think you understand what I might mean. I could parse your words just as easily however it's not relevant here.
Juan Williams, by presenting personal opinion in his role as a journalist, contracted to National Public Radio, violated the terms of his contract -- those details which have been reported -- as a journalist with NPR. How much simpler do you need it?
There was actually a very long and tiresome discussion about this on the BBC yesterday afternoon by media experts and journalists who are a lot more knowledgeable about this than you or I.
Seems to me that you're here throwing ideological stones trying to create an argument.
Michael Perz said:If by "violating the journalistic code of ethics" you really mean "appearing on the media outlet of the enemy" or "admitting to an incorrect opinion", then you're right. However, the ultimate determination whether or not his firing was justified lays in the terms of his contract with NPR - something nobody seems to be focusing on when presenting their opinions on this subject.
It's no secret that NPR often tilts left as do many of its listeners. I'd simply like to see how feverish the defenders of their action to fire Williams would be if this story had such a twist. It isn't as if anyone is focusing on the relevant details anyway.
Craig S. said:All right, Michael, I'll bite.
I'm probably your average NPR listener; I am an avid consumer of their news programming as well as their cultural programming and I support my local public radio station. What sort of ideological knot are you hoping I'll tie myself into?
Mr. Williams violated NPR's journalistic code of ethics, repeatedly, which is why he was sacked.
Michael Perz said:It's too bad that he wasn't represented by some journalists' union that contested the firing and turned this into a labor relations fiasco, because I would love to see the average NPR listener twist themselves into ideological knots trying to make sense of it all.
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Permalink Reply by mike w. on
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(a discolsure: i cut & pasted this from another site's forum. i know the OP, so i know it's okay...)
>>Just in case like Juan Williams you worry when you see Muslims on planes, you'll want to brush up on what they may dress like.
http://muslimswearingthings.tumblr.com/
My favorite:
http://muslimswearingthings.tumblr.com/post/1376147929/prince-abdul...
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Permalink Reply by Pablo on
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Ladies and Gent,
I think it may be time to throw the TV out. I cut that cord 2 years ago and now I just smile when I hear silly conversations like this. Go live your life.
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Permalink Reply by Duppie on
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True, everybody gets worked up in a lather on what is basically a troll post. Interesting how that never fails.
Pablo said:Ladies and Gent,
I think it may be time to throw the TV out. I cut that cord 2 years ago and now I just smile when I hear silly conversations like this. Go live your life.
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Permalink Reply by Minh on
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It's too bad this is about public radio. I guess since we are bragging about not watching "TV", I haven't watched TV in over 8 years.
Pablo said:Ladies and Gent,
I think it may be time to throw the TV out. I cut that cord 2 years ago and now I just smile when I hear silly conversations like this. Go live your life.
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Permalink Reply by Davo on
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IMO this was a big power play by Juan. Lets face it the big money lies in opinion and the more stuff that you stir in the air the better for you financially. NPR may have played in his hand by giving him a scandal so he can gain a bigger paycheck.
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Permalink Reply by Ken Gray on
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I'm glad to see that most reply's to this post have been thoughtful opinion. I honestly believe that it is a thorny topic open to debate. There are two good sides to this story. Hope we can respect each others thoughts along the way.
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Ken, Do you have an opinion on this?
Ken Gray said:I'm glad to see that most reply's to this post have been thoughtful opinion. I honestly believe that it is a thorny topic open to debate. There are two good sides to this story. Hope we can respect each others thoughts along the way.
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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on
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I don't think it's obligatory for someone initiating a discussion to take a position, but it is a common courtesy to provide at least a link to a well-chosen source giving the basics of the subject matter.
Anyone else ever notice how people who listen to NPR think everyone else on the planet does too?
Duppie said:Ken, Do you have an opinion on this?
Ken Gray said:I'm glad to see that most reply's to this post have been thoughtful opinion. I honestly believe that it is a thorny topic open to debate. There are two good sides to this story. Hope we can respect each others thoughts along the way.
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