Clark Park Boathouse Discussion
Clark Park is a pristine river front park which contains acres of green space and a half mile river front trail, soccer fields, native gardens and a state-of-the-art BMX trail. Also, it has a public canoe/kayak launch and is a recognized butterfly sanctuary and bird watching habitat.
We oppose constructing a 2 acre sized boat warehouse/crewing facility which will negatively impact the park - it will be too large for Clark Park and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete, increased vehicle traffic, and will interrupt existing activities at the park. The public demands a period of public review to investigate moving the facility to a larger park or a different location.
A much smaller boathouse facility could be constructed at Clark Park, containing canoes/kayak, badly needed washrooms and a public water source, concessios and possible bike rental. Green Space is the most valuable resource in the parks, especially in this one-of-a-kind riverfront park - it must be protected for future generations.
http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-park-district-and-the-city-...
Views: 8477
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bill donahue on -
Constructive criticism is always good, it will do no good to be defensive, when the goal is for our park to succeed and for the community to get what it needs from the current situation. Of course we are and have been in communication with all levels in the political spectrum, but assuming that we should know every detail of what the city and the park district intend to do and to build at Clark Park, when we had very limited information before it happened, it is kind of like asking the guy who is run over by the truck, why he cannot remember the make and model! Even the alderman of the 47th ward was surprised when he saw that what they intended to build was 40,000 SF on two floors! We immediately appeared in front of the Chicago Park District Board of Commissioners and stated our case for the smaller canoe/kayak boathouse, new concession stand, water source, bathrooms and bike rental. Yes, the height of the rowing building in the petition was incorrect, but our position is and was, that if a building is on fire ,you should intend to put it out as quickly as possible, then the the only real response is whether you are going to watch others do it or grab a bucket?? The facts of the case are undisputed regarding the intended construction of the rowing facility and boathouse. No, we are not going to gloss over the incorrectly stated number of floors, despite the fact that it really is not that important to our argument. Errors are made and we acknowledge this error now and will do so when the petition is presented. We are clearly not responsible for every misstatement and incorrect assertion on this forum, even if they say they support the park or the council. It would be like blaming the misdeeds of John Edwards or Herman Cain on all Democrats or all Republicans!!
As far as the ill tempered comments on the forum - these do not help anyone's case, those who have an opinion on any side of several issues which are being discussed. CPAC should not be chastised in particular for these comments, since they have clearly come from all angles, and do not reflect any strategy or particular intention of the group.
Hopefully, if some of our advisors on the forum would like to actually get involved in the issue, perhaps they will attend an advisory council meeting and see what we are up to. Next meeting is Tuesday May 15th at 7PM, Revere Park. Over the years, we have been a very effective advocate for the park - convincing the city to purchase ten litter strewn abandoned acres from United Parcel Service, conducting numerous cleanups and paintouts, installing gardens and fencing within the park, successfully lobbying for construction of the first public canoe launch on the north branch, sponsoring the presentation which led to official sanctioning of the BMX track known as the "garden". We have an annual fund raiser which is a "twilight canoe" , which has funded many improvements to the park. We know have a fund started to build a playground in the park. Also, we hatched an idea about ten years ago to build a ped/bike bridge across the river at Roscoe, which has received wide support. We would encourage any neighbors or forum participants interested in preserving green space, to come out and get involved. Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Tim S on -
Wish I did not have our sailmaker coming to town for a practice scheduled on the 12th otherwise I would have been iin for the cleanup.
Carter please stop being so black&white with the anti bike statements. Most, if not all, of the folks on this site are quite pro bike.
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Permalink Reply by Kevin C on -
I didn't want to bump the thread needlessly, but I think the new thread name is a significant step in the right direction.
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Permalink Reply by lorraine reder on
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Duppie said:Maybe so, but in this particular initiative, the mayor himself said that the boat house "will be built with community input". From this thread I get the impression that the input process has not yet started.
http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/city/en/depts/mayor/press_room...
lorraine reder said:The Chicago Park District Board of Directors are political appointees, they are not elected officials and do not have to listen to what the taxpayers (i.e. the community) want.
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Permalink Reply by notoriousDUG on -
Dill Pickle just lost a customer.
You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:
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Cameron, the debate is no longer just "should there be a boathouse."
The debate is, "should there be a boathouse knowing that means we don't get a bike/pedestrian bridge."
So yes - you choose the boathouse, you are being anti-cyclist."
Did it ever occur to you that people could want one thing more than another and just be 'pro' what they want without being 'anti' anything? If somebody, in a given situation, is for one thing at the expense of another it does not mean they are 'anti' the other, they just value one thing over the other. When you tell people they are 'anti' something or make their end of an argument a negative or 'bad' side of the issue rather than just another viewpoint you make them defensive and upset; it is not a path to a fruitful discussion just to a shit-show that degrades into hurt feelings and people taking it personally just like this whole thing has.
Of course there is also the concept that brief, clear and simple statements work best for arguing issues and you have missed that mark completely as well so I am just guessing you are shitty at communicating with people in a positive manner...
As for the park I, personally, could give to shits what gets built there, how much stays green space or if they just pave the whole thing over into a parking lot; I was just weighing in because I *tried* to read this thread to get useful info about what was happening in the park and was overwhelmed by what an asshat you were.
Carter O'Brien said:Let me clarify this one last time, then
I didn't say anyone who wants to row or doesn't care about this bridge hates cyclists or biking, that's obviously ridiculous.
What I said - and am saying - is supporting a private boathouse instead of a public ped/cycling bridge is anti-bike. It is anti-bike ON THIS ISSUE, it is choosing a project which favors people of means making a land grab on a public area which otherwise could be a multi-purpose win-win for many.
The metric is 8 - 80, that's ATA's, and one which stems spiritually from the Iroquois Federation's 7 generations rule of thumb. A bike/ped bridge wins on every count - kids, teens, adults, families, seniors would all benefit.
This is NOT a complex issue. That's where you are dead wrong. This is cut and dry. The community had existing plans which left a healthy amount of open space yet also improved facilities for the canoers, kayakers and other park users, and which also included the bridge. Now we have 11th hour schemery and a land grab by a small and clearly well-connected group.
I know which side I'm on.
As for what I do? A funny demand coming from an anonymous poster, but what the hell, I don't generally toot my own horn but I'll give it a shot.
So let's see - I taught in CPS, including a special ed class that was largely full of kids from Cabrini Green. I've worked in the non-profit sector at the Field Museum for 15 years, helping my division of some 150+ people do groundbreaking scientific research. I've also been on the green team that entire time, and have chaired it for about the last 7. We were the first museum in the country to have a shared bikes program, something I personally walked through the system from concept to implementation:
http://fieldmuseum.org/about/field-museum-launches-shared-bike-prog...
I co-founded Bike Walk Logan Square last year:
http://bikewalklogansquare.wordpress.com/
Alas, I cannot say I have gotten a bridge built.
I became a member of the old Bike Federation in maybe 98. They will have my support until the day I die just for the North Avenue bike path overhaul. The Navy Pier Flyover is what I recognize as a modern-day miracle.
I Chair the Dill Pickle Co-Op's Finance Committee and we are in final stages of expansion planning, when that's done I'll get back involved more on the cycling front.
Oh, and Chicago Fair Trade invented an award for me:
http://www.chicagofairtrade.org/aboutus/information-about-us/174-cf...
There are now three, it's an amazing community to be a part of.
And I'm a Treekeeper (badge #793, I love saying that).
I have also probably worked in some capacity on about 8 - 10 political campaigns, I am most proud of getting on board and stumping for Scot Waguespack when nobody gave him a snowball's chance in hell of unseating a hack leftover from the Rostenkowski machine - coincidentally, that bozo promised our neighborhood back in the late 90s that he was going to fix the Fullerton, Elston & Damen intersection, making it more friendly for traffic of all types. It's Scott Waguespack that has actually done the work which is going to make that happen.
It is humbling to have been privileged to work with all the people I have to improve the City. I know the difference between an improvement for the people and a land grab.
I really don't care what you think of me, and I don't care if I'm alienating you or anyone else, because as I see it there is no "on the fence" here, this is as close to a 100% good-vs-evil situation as I have ever seen in Chicago, using Epton vs. Washington as my barometer for that.
I believe that answers your questions.
Now, can you tell me why it is you feel that the 40,000 people in Avondale and 74,000 people in Logan Square don't deserve a safe path east across the river? Or why the people who take care of Clark Park and have been striving to make it better for everyone should be subjected to this kind of disrespect from their government?
notoriousDUG said:
Ya know what buddy, go f-yerself and the horse you rode in on and, while I am at it, let it be known that in my book any cause you are a part of needs to be pretty damn worthy or I am going to oppose it just on the general principal of you being involved. Never before have I seen a person not only be horrible at making their case but also excel at damaging it.
Not only do I not post anonymously here (yeah, it's a screen name but if you are active on this board you not only probably know my full name but the bike shop I work at) but I come out to enough events that most folks on here have meet me for real; where have you been? Who do you know? And, most importantly, who in the hell are you to tell me if I am part of the problem or not!? What do you know about me that allows you to declare me 'anti-bike' because I am not siding with you on an complex issue you never seem to be able to give us all the facts on?
Are you really so simple minded you think you can just get people to blindly follow your cause by accusing them of not being supportive of cycling or trying to make it seem like we have been invaded by rowers? I have bad news for you junior; the folks here are smarter than that.
Let me ask you this: What have YOU done about advocating for cycling beyond bullied people here and been a jerk about the bike bridge? What are YOU doing to get people on bikes? Where are you volunteering your time? What bike organizations are you volunteering or helping at? You want to challenge me on being pro/anti-bike bring it on because I do not think there is a person here who knows me that would tell you I am not, on the whole, very pro-bike and work at helping to make biking better.
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Permalink Reply by James BlackHeron on -
There is transportation cycling and pleasure cycling.
I think pleasure cycling is sort of like pleasure rowing -it's not really transportation for the 99% of People out there unless you live in a swamp or Venice Italy. A rowing shell probably isn't a conveyance or transportation vehicle for 99% of People even there.
So I guess if you chose pleasure rowing infrastructure for the 1% over infrastructure for transportation 8-80 cycling that doesn't make you "anti-cycling" but it does sort of go on the record of chosing rowing over transportation cycling in my mind. All life is choices and everyone gets to make their own. Mine is to chose transportation cycling over sport (and although I do enjoy my sport cycling too I chose sport cycling over other sports like rowing/crew or Jai Alai.)
The Dill Pickle is laid out inside a bit closely-packed for someone who likes his personal space [-] so I don't go in there much although I do wait by the bikes when my wife goes in there sometimes. But I think I'll drop by sometime this week and give them a little moral support.
notoriousDUG said:Dill Pickle just lost a customer.
You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:
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Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on -
Thank you James, you are doing a better job of articulating my position than I am.
But to address a few of the points I missed:
1. I am in no way associated with CPAC. I have watched & appreciated their improvements to the park for a number of years, so yes, when I see that various City of Chicago agencies/personnel have been scheming in the proverbial smoke-filled rooms and then disrespect CPAC's advocacy work, it makes me friggin mad. As a matter of principle, Chicagoans as a whole should be outraged when planners go around neighborhood constituencies, so right off the bat, independent of any details of the the project, this is unacceptable in my opinion.
2. In that regard, Lisa did make an interesting point I meant to follow up on. She's right - the City's website documents no longer include the drawings with the bridge.
Now, I know for a fact they *were* there, as that's why I posted the original thread on this last July with the links. Silly me for not appreciating the depths that some people will sink, I am kicking myself for not actually downloading and saving the pdfs last year, but they are huge and it didn't seem necessary. However, Bill Donahue did link to plans including the bridge, and they most definitely were in the TIF, 47th ward staffer Bill Higgins' comments clearly indicate a bridge had been on the "to do" list.
3. My wife kindly alerted me to the fact that bike lanes were being installed on Roscoe between Damen and Western this weekend (hurrah). So clearly the value of Roscoe as an alternative cycling route is well-known. Why anyone would expect that dangling a cyclist bridge over the river there and then taking it away for a private boathouse would get anything BUT strong negative reactions is beyond me.
While I appreciate Lisa's comments regarding supporting bike lanes on Addison and Belmont, I'm not sure why she/others don't get that many of us have been advocating and pressing our elected officials for those for years. They aren't on the table for some very specific reasons including IDOT jurisdiction, and while maybe they will eventually get prioritized, it ain't gonna happen any time soon.
4. That said, I would again emphasize I really have nothing against the concept of a boathouse, per se. My problem is the location, and it being privatized. A facility that like that doesn't belong on public land. But, to put something that requires one pay rent as a choice over a free and public bridge, is (as James clearly described) is the City and anyone who supports the boathouse favoring privatizing public land over creating more safe transportation options for the public on bike.
That's all. I will re-state that no, not favoring the bridge does not make one anti-bike, I am specifically talking about where one stands on this single issue, and I'm not going to backtrack on that position, it is black and white.
Summarizing:
Backroom deals +
Forcing unwanted privatized infrastructure into public land +
Deprioritising existing bike infrastructure plans which would open this park/commuting path to tens and tens of thousands of residents west of the river =
One angry and frustrated lifetime resident of this area. And I guarantee you that are way more people like me out there than anyone here knows, they've just been kept in the dark so they aren't having their voices heard, which is also wrong.
Dug - if you're going to boycott the Dill Pickle you should at least be consistent and boycott a fairly substantial swath of the City that I've in some capacity also done volunteer work for. So I hope you don't really need to be in the 32nd or 35th ward, or in Humboldt Park or in of the parks (names available on request) I've done tree-plantings and other work for. But I will make you a deal - you come out to the river clean up next Saturday for Clark Park and lunch & drinks are on me.
James BlackHeron said:There is transportation cycling and pleasure cycling.
I think pleasure cycling is sort of like pleasure rowing -it's not really transportation for the 99% of People out there unless you live in a swamp or Venice Italy. A rowing shell probably isn't a conveyance or transportation vehicle for 99% of People even there.
So I guess if you chose pleasure rowing infrastructure for the 1% over infrastructure for transportation 8-80 cycling that doesn't make you "anti-cycling" but it does sort of go on the record of chosing rowing over transportation cycling in my mind. All life is choices and everyone gets to make their own. Mine is to chose transportation cycling over sport (and although I do enjoy my sport cycling too I chose sport cycling over other sports like rowing/crew or Jai Alai.)
The Dill Pickle is laid out inside a bit closely-packed for someone who likes his personal space [-] so I don't go in there much although I do wait by the bikes when my wife goes in there sometimes. But I think I'll drop by sometime this week and give them a little moral support.
notoriousDUG said:Dill Pickle just lost a customer.
You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:
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Permalink Reply by Kevin T. on
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BTW, over 500 signatures on the petition. Yes, the flawed petition, ha-ha.
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Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on
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Some more details on Roscoe & good news I think we can all get behind:
http://gridchicago.com/2012/roscoe-street-gets-buffered-bike-lanes/...
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