Cold setting a steel frame, how far is too far? - The Chainlink2024-03-29T13:51:27Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/cold-setting-a-steel-frame-how-far-is-too-far?feed=yes&xn_auth=noIf you get an old axle and cu…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-11:2211490:Comment:6156172012-11-11T16:13:38.747ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
<p>If you get an old axle and cut it in half you can straighten the dropouts by eye like it shows in the Sheldon link.</p>
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<p>Once you have the dropouts straight put the wheel back in and get it where you want it. A cheap <a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-utility-caliper-7914.html" target="_blank">plastic Harbor-Freight $2.99 vernier caliper</a> is very helpful with this and is accurate to 1/20th of a mm (believe it or not -but it is.)</p>
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<p>If you get lucky with…</p>
<p>If you get an old axle and cut it in half you can straighten the dropouts by eye like it shows in the Sheldon link.</p>
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<p>Once you have the dropouts straight put the wheel back in and get it where you want it. A cheap <a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-utility-caliper-7914.html" target="_blank">plastic Harbor-Freight $2.99 vernier caliper</a> is very helpful with this and is accurate to 1/20th of a mm (believe it or not -but it is.)</p>
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<p>If you get lucky with your used axle that you cut in half it will be the same thread as the drop-out bolt. You can buy a 3-foot section of aluminum 1/2"x3/4" angle stock at Home Depot or Menards for under $5. Drill a hole in the middle of the angle stock and use the axle to bolt it to the drop-out and you have a drop-out alignment gauge. You can then measure from the rim to the angle stock and see how far out of alignment the hanger is. You can rotate the stock around and get different measurements to a degree to measure front/back and sort of top/bottom although it's limited in its rotation by the axle of the wheel. Tweak the dropout by grabbing the axle bolt with something like the end of a box-wrench or a small piece of pipe. Keep tweaking the Dropout until you get it so that the measurement from the aluminum angle to the rim is equal on both sides regardless of how you spin the "gauge." If you can get it to within .5mm from side to side that is close enough and just as close as you can get it with the professional gauge and closer than you will be able to line up the wheel again once you take it out unless you have dropout alignment bolts that will make sure the wheel is in the same place every time you put it in.</p>
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<p>i'd take a picture of this but I'm too lazy to yank a derailleur off one of my bikes and dig out my own home-made gauges to show you want I'm talking about right now. I should take pictures the next time I'm using it. </p> Thanks again. With the wheel…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-11:2211490:Comment:6158102012-11-11T15:50:03.265ZTheo 84https://thechainlink.org/profile/Theo84
<p>Thanks again. With the wheel mounted I was surprised at how much off a 1mm center tube difference made in the alignment. I am not like Siskle and Ebart, but even I could see it. </p>
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<p>I put the all thread piece back in, bolted it to the spacing I wanted (135), and then bent the whole rear triangle together. Worked like a charm. I'm riding no hands.</p>
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<p>Now if only I could get the derailleur to hang a bit straighter.....</p>
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<p>Thanks again. With the wheel mounted I was surprised at how much off a 1mm center tube difference made in the alignment. I am not like Siskle and Ebart, but even I could see it. </p>
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<p>I put the all thread piece back in, bolted it to the spacing I wanted (135), and then bent the whole rear triangle together. Worked like a charm. I'm riding no hands.</p>
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<p>Now if only I could get the derailleur to hang a bit straighter.....</p>
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<p></p> Your wheel may be off a mm or…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-09:2211490:Comment:6149052012-11-09T00:58:27.924ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
<p>Your wheel may be off a mm or more to the one side. the seatpost is about halfway between the front of the bike and the seatpost so a .5mm difference at the seatpost will be a mm or more at the back. If that isn't a big deal to you then don't worry about it. Personally, a wheel that is that far off would bother me. </p>
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<p>But before you go nuts with the 2x4 put a wheel in there just to check. Sometimes it is hard to get a good measurement with the string test. Get the wheel as…</p>
<p>Your wheel may be off a mm or more to the one side. the seatpost is about halfway between the front of the bike and the seatpost so a .5mm difference at the seatpost will be a mm or more at the back. If that isn't a big deal to you then don't worry about it. Personally, a wheel that is that far off would bother me. </p>
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<p>But before you go nuts with the 2x4 put a wheel in there just to check. Sometimes it is hard to get a good measurement with the string test. Get the wheel as centered as you can get it and measure from each of the stays in the rear triangle until you find out what that looks like and if it is lined up with the rest of the bike. </p>
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<p>Personally, a tiny bit of misalignment is really evident to me but I have worked as an electrician for many years bending pipe and my eye is pretty good with that sort of thing when it comes to alignments of things.</p>
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<p>I'm like Siskle and Ebert when I'm at Critical Mass and looking at all the bikes. I can spot a cobbled-up frame or one that has been bent from fifty feet behind it. I'm picky about stuff like that. </p> Thanks to all. I used the al…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-08:2211490:Comment:6148952012-11-08T22:52:55.622ZTheo 84https://thechainlink.org/profile/Theo84
<p>Thanks to all. I used the all-thread method to expand the back spacing on an '86 Dave Scott Iron man to 135 mm. It could not have been easier. Using the string test, I find that I'm now 1 mm off to the left when measuring from the string to the seat post (35 left, 34 right). Is it worth the effort to try to bend it back just .5 mm using a 2x4, or is this close enough for my weekend-rider-purposes?</p>
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<p>Again, my appreciation for the help.</p>
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<p>Thanks to all. I used the all-thread method to expand the back spacing on an '86 Dave Scott Iron man to 135 mm. It could not have been easier. Using the string test, I find that I'm now 1 mm off to the left when measuring from the string to the seat post (35 left, 34 right). Is it worth the effort to try to bend it back just .5 mm using a 2x4, or is this close enough for my weekend-rider-purposes?</p>
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<p>Again, my appreciation for the help.</p>
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<p></p> Picture yourself fixing a fla…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-07:2211490:Comment:6143432012-11-07T18:15:04.812ZJuan Primohttps://thechainlink.org/profile/JuanPrimo
<p>Picture yourself fixing a flat in the rain at night. I used to deal with a too-long axle and squeezing the frame to fit. It's a pain in the long run.<br></br><br></br><cite>Tony Adams said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/cold-setting-a-steel-frame-how-far-is-too-far#2211490Comment614256"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>That's kinda what I was thinking... that in this case there is no need to cold set it at all. There should be enough play in the stays…</p>
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<p>Picture yourself fixing a flat in the rain at night. I used to deal with a too-long axle and squeezing the frame to fit. It's a pain in the long run.<br/><br/><cite>Tony Adams said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/cold-setting-a-steel-frame-how-far-is-too-far#2211490Comment614256"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>That's kinda what I was thinking... that in this case there is no need to cold set it at all. There should be enough play in the stays to just squeeze them apart when mounting the wheel?<br/><br/></p>
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</blockquote> It can just be spread apart t…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-07:2211490:Comment:6145132012-11-07T18:11:00.451ZDoug Hayneshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DougHaynes
<p>It can just be spread apart to get the wheel in but I think cold setting the frame is preferable for two reasons. First of all it makes getting the wheel in/out/aligned/tight easier if the spacing fits the frame. Second I think that it is less damaging to a frame to have it cold set properly than it is to have the wheel continually pulled apart or pressed in.</p>
<p>It can just be spread apart to get the wheel in but I think cold setting the frame is preferable for two reasons. First of all it makes getting the wheel in/out/aligned/tight easier if the spacing fits the frame. Second I think that it is less damaging to a frame to have it cold set properly than it is to have the wheel continually pulled apart or pressed in.</p> That's kinda what I was think…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-07:2211490:Comment:6142562012-11-07T17:31:39.533ZTony Adamshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/TonyAdams
<p>That's kinda what I was thinking... that in this case there is no need to cold set it at all. There should be enough play in the stays to just squeeze them apart when mounting the wheel?<br></br> <br></br> <cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/cold-setting-a-steel-frame-how-far-is-too-far#2211490Comment526577"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>It will be just fine.</p>
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<p>If you want I can show you how to make a couple of tool…</p>
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<p>That's kinda what I was thinking... that in this case there is no need to cold set it at all. There should be enough play in the stays to just squeeze them apart when mounting the wheel?<br/> <br/> <cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/cold-setting-a-steel-frame-how-far-is-too-far#2211490Comment526577"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>It will be just fine.</p>
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<p>If you want I can show you how to make a couple of tool that will do it evenly and with a measurable result as well as make sure it does not stress the brake or chain stay bridges but just grabbing hold and doing your best strong man impersonation will be fine as well.</p>
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</blockquote> You need a clamp to go over t…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-07:2211490:Comment:6142552012-11-07T17:29:59.662ZDoug Hayneshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DougHaynes
<p>You need a clamp to go over the frame at the chain stay and seat stay bridge to prevent them getting stress on the joints.</p>
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<p>Then use a turnbuckle with ends modified to clamp into the drop outs to spread it evenly and slowly. Check it as you go and expand it slowly. You will usually have to go past the dimension you need to account for spring back.</p>
<p>You need a clamp to go over the frame at the chain stay and seat stay bridge to prevent them getting stress on the joints.</p>
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<p>Then use a turnbuckle with ends modified to clamp into the drop outs to spread it evenly and slowly. Check it as you go and expand it slowly. You will usually have to go past the dimension you need to account for spring back.</p> Sheldon's Method
Threaded Ro…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-07:2211490:Comment:6143412012-11-07T17:29:48.092ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
<p><a href="http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html#spreading" target="_blank">Sheldon's Method</a></p>
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<p><a href="http://vintage-trek.com/refurbish.htm#dropouts" target="_blank">Threaded Rod Method</a></p>
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<p>I use a modified Sheldon Method because I don't like putting that much stress on an unsupported seat tube. It can bend and be ruined if you lever too hard on it. I put a brace from the bottom-bracket to the top of the seat tube to spread out the force. It's just a…</p>
<p><a href="http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html#spreading" target="_blank">Sheldon's Method</a></p>
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<p><a href="http://vintage-trek.com/refurbish.htm#dropouts" target="_blank">Threaded Rod Method</a></p>
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<p>I use a modified Sheldon Method because I don't like putting that much stress on an unsupported seat tube. It can bend and be ruined if you lever too hard on it. I put a brace from the bottom-bracket to the top of the seat tube to spread out the force. It's just a simple C-shaped piece of wood.</p>
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<p>Some folks like the threaded-rod method but I have found using the string-test that the rear triangle often doesn't "give" evenly when it is spread and one side inevitably spreads more than the other -then you have to do the Sheldon method to even it out anyhow. You might as well save your effort and just spread each side exactly half the distance and not over-bend and have to bend back, weakening the frame. But there are others who disagree. </p>
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<p>Remember that you will have to align the dropouts again when you are done spreading the frame. A simple axle cut in half is all the tool you really need for this job (shown on Sheldon's page in the first link) if you have a good eye although Park tools sells <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Frame-Alignment-Gauge/dp/B000QSW59K" target="_blank">an expensive tool</a> that does the same thing and makes it a little easier to do the bending. </p> Dear Notorioius,
I'd li…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-11-07:2211490:Comment:6143382012-11-07T17:06:18.667ZTheo 84https://thechainlink.org/profile/Theo84
<p>Dear Notorioius,</p>
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<p> I'd like to know how to make the tools for cold setting an old steel frame. Thanks.</p>
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<p>Best, cnadon<br></br> <br></br> <cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/cold-setting-a-steel-frame-how-far-is-too-far#2211490Comment526577"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>It will be just fine.</p>
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<p>If you want I can show you how to make a couple of tool that will do it evenly and with a…</p>
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<p>Dear Notorioius,</p>
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<p> I'd like to know how to make the tools for cold setting an old steel frame. Thanks.</p>
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<p>Best, cnadon<br/> <br/> <cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/cold-setting-a-steel-frame-how-far-is-too-far#2211490Comment526577"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>It will be just fine.</p>
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<p>If you want I can show you how to make a couple of tool that will do it evenly and with a measurable result as well as make sure it does not stress the brake or chain stay bridges but just grabbing hold and doing your best strong man impersonation will be fine as well.</p>
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