Climate Cycle's founder says: "Don't Blame BP" ?!
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His e-mail subject was: Don't Blame BP |
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This guy is suspiciously wrong .
This enormous environmental disaster was not caused the end users of the fossil fuel.
11 workers were killed by BP and it's policies not by the end users of the fossil fuel.
90%+ of the blame clearly is at BP's door.
1 for allowing the accident in the first place.
2 for lobbying to change the rules that allowed them to get away with it.
This lame argument is like saying that users of electricity are responsible the the 29 dead coal miners at the recent coal mine disaster instead of blaming the mine operators. Or like blaming children for lead poisoning of themselves, for wanting toys instead of blaming the Chinese manufactures.
Has this guy turned into a corporate slug?
I say:
BOYCOTT BP -------and Boycott all it's parts
am/pm mini mart
ARCO
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-BP/119101198107726
http://www.earthyreport.com/site/boycott-bp/
http://www.citizen.org/page.aspx?pid=3311
http://boycottbptshirt.com/
http://www.fubp.org/
Views: 5
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Adriana on -
Thanks Duppie, I have not had the pleasure of reading this book, but it sounds right up my alley! Yay, on the microbrews too :o)
Duppie said:Adriana said:Oh, we are but a speck of dust in the sands of time...I just got here and I am tired of this rehashed subject.
So what makes us so special...our intelligence, our self-awareness? How does that differ from say, the dinosaurs, who had no clue that a comet was hurdling through space about to wreak havoc on the ecosystem? And the planet, it survived...it is not the planet we are concerned with, it is our own skin. Oh no the poor animals. We are animals and if it wasn't for that mass extinction, humanity would not have evolved. Nature is our biggest foe. So I say, just do your best :o) instead of pointing fingers 'no, its your fault...you consume more, your hands are bloodier than mine, I am better than you...'
or continue to fret, fret for your microbrews, fret for your wheelsets, fret for your iphones and macs, your fashionable socks, your grilled pineapple...hmmm how the hell did a pineapple get to Chicago I wonder?
LEARN TO SWIM
If you haven't already done so, can I suggest you read Bill Bryson’s “A Short History of Nearly Everything”? He makes a compelling case about the futility of our civilization in the grand scheme of things. Reading it while enjoying a couple of fine microbrews makes it even better.
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Permalink Reply by h' 1.0 on -
Can you show me where anyone has expressed this "concept" in this thread?
The concept that you can not being doing good for the world if you drive a car or use petrol to do your job is close-minded, elitist and in the end more damaging to the cause as a whole because it turns off people who are not as dedicated as you are.
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Permalink Reply by JKH on -
I do not discount the effect of choosing not to drive, on the contrary I think it does good for society and the environment. What I said was it is not enough and that we need to do more.
At no point did I make the argument that we need to reduce our footprint to zero or not bother. On the contrary I advocated for people to actively take part in helping reduce the environmental impact of construction, shipping and agricultural. I also said we should all do what we can about the BP mess.
My whole point about elitism is if you work at a desk it's easy in Chicago to not own a car. I went car less for two years during my last job and loved it. With Chicago traffic not owning a car is about as self-sacrificing as deciding not to punch yourself in the balls. I could get a desk job if I wanted but I truly believe that by using less than half the fuel most people using my job do and by encouraging others to do the same I'm having a much more positive impact than if I had different job and no car.
It's easy in Chicago to have a life moving from one pocket of liberalism to another preaching to the choir. I think the real challenge is figuring out a way to preach to people that can effect substantial change. Convince one shipping manager at a mid size company to ship by train instead of truck and you've just saved 25,000 gallons of diesel a year. My point is people with environmental consciences in industries that use resources could make huge change for the good.
H3N3 said:Not sure why you need to discount the effect of choosing not to drive-- it's the single most effective change most of us can make. The argument that you have to either reduce your ecological footprint to zero or not even bother is childish and depressing.
JKH said:It is impossible to live in our society without having a negative environmental impact and it's not enough to say I don't drive. What are you actually doing to decrease pollution? My point is that running away from the physical world isn't helping at all. Things need to move, be built, be grown and best way to help is to figure out how to do it better.
Of course we all are responsible for the current mess and we should do what we can and part of that should be boycotting BP
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Permalink Reply by notoriousDUG on -
I feel it's in the overall tone and it could be me picking up on the general vibe I often feel from the car free that anyone who drives a car is evil and part of the problem.
Think of it as me being overly sensitive because of every time on a list-serv, message board or at a bike related event I have to listen or read about how anyone who is 'stupid' (and I have had people tell me anyone who drives is stupid), drivers are 'killers,' driving a car is a aggressive choice and every other piece of rhetoric I have to hear.
I do a job that supports the industries that provide society with it's basic, and not so basic needs and have for years; before that I kept airliners running on time When I point out that my job, one that is pretty crucial to the everyday lives of many people on this board, requires me to drive and use fossil fuels I get told I should just go find a new job? Is it lost on everyone how ignorant a statement that is?
People preach to me about social and environmental responsibility and act like my choice of careers makes it impossible for me to care about any of those thing when I make choices every day to try and, within the confines of my business, make the right choices about both of those things. You can be a part of the 'problem' and still be socially responsible; I left a very good position with General Motors some years ago because I felt it was a morally reprehensible job! I use my skills where they are needed and bring me the funds I need to live my life.
H3N3 said:Can you show me where anyone has expressed this "concept" in this thread?
The concept that you can not being doing good for the world if you drive a car or use petrol to do your job is close-minded, elitist and in the end more damaging to the cause as a whole because it turns off people who are not as dedicated as you are.
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Permalink Reply by h' 1.0 on
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I was in a crappy mood and having a bad day during my previous posts, sorry.
Overall, though, there are different messages that need to get out at different times to different audiences in the course of trying to create social change, and if you happen to party to a message that's meant for a different audience I think it would be healthier to acknowledge as much and move on.
I've been at this for 10 years and I can't even remember a small percentage of the times I've gotten the "the time is not right" or "that message turns people off" response to the message that we need to move away from the personal automobile as our dominant mode of travel.
Like anyone's going to get back in touch with me and let me know when the time is right . . .
I still don't get the desk job/elistism thing, sorry-- it sounds like you're expressing a bitter disdain of anyone who is left-leaning and has quit car ownership, but I still can't figure out exaxtly why.
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Permalink Reply by notoriousDUG on
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Well I'm overly sensitive, like a cheerleader, so we'll call it even...
I don't know about the desk job thing but I think that a lot of people who live car free or dedicate themselves more then the average joe to being 'green' tend to hold the attitude that their choice is somehow 'better' then other peoples and I am not sure I agree with that. It's different, and I think it's better, but who am I, or anyone else, to judge these things? The most we can do is what we think is right and hope the rest of the world does the same.
I have no disdain, beyond envy, for those who are car free. At this point in my life I only have a work vehicle and no personal car so I am part way there...
H3N3 said:I was in a crappy mood and having a bad day during my previous posts, sorry.
Overall, though, there are different messages that need to get out at different times to different audiences in the course of trying to create social change, and if you happen to party to a message that's meant for a different audience I think it would be healthier to acknowledge as much and move on.
I've been at this for 10 years and I can't even remember a small percentage of the times I've gotten the "the time is not right" or "that message turns people off" response to the message that we need to move away from the personal automobile as our dominant mode of travel.
Like anyone's going to get back in touch with me and let me know when the time is right . . .
I still don't get the desk job/elistism thing, sorry-- it sounds like you're expressing a bitter disdain of anyone who is left-leaning and has quit car ownership, but I still can't figure out exaxtly why.
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Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on -
Well, it is better not to drive a car, all else being equal. All else isn't equal for lots of people, and they should drive cars.
For what it's worth I think there's a lot of zealotry of the newly converted in these conversations. My parents raised a whole family pretty much car free and vegetarian and they manage not to harangue people about these topics in every other conversation they have, even as they do try to get people to think about their lifestyle choices. As these things go the guy who's most hardcore about insisting everyone in a car is a murderer is the one most likely to end up tooling around Wilmette in a Ford Navigator, so whatever.
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Permalink Reply by Adriana on
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The only thing anyone here is going to drive is... Themselves...Insane, oops too late :p For a super villain you sure are superduper Dr. Doom!
and here's my Anti-Grind Down Anthem...for whenever anyone is giving me a hard time for any reason...
Dr. Doom said:Well, it is better not to drive a car, all else being equal. All else isn't equal for lots of people, and they should drive cars.
For what it's worth I think there's a lot of zealotry of the newly converted in these conversations. My parents raised a whole family pretty much car free and vegetarian and they manage not to harangue people about these topics in every other conversation they have, even as they do try to get people to think about their lifestyle choices. As these things go the guy who's most hardcore about insisting everyone in a car is a murderer is the one most likely to end up tooling around Wilmette in a Ford Navigator, so whatever.
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Permalink Reply by JKH on
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H3N3 said:
I still don't get the desk job/elistism thing, sorry-- it sounds like you're expressing a bitter disdain of anyone who is left-leaning and has quit car ownership, but I still can't figure out exaxtly why.
What your picking up on is not disdain but frustration that some people, such as Clark, feel comfortable telling someone else that they should find a new job. Even the greenest life style has negative impact and there is an essential hypocrisy in telling people who make your lifestyle possible to find a new job. It's much more productive to have a dialogue and lead by example.
I come from an ultra liberal, urban and activist background. My political leaning are borderline socialist. It's because of this background that I've become frustrated with the classist attitudes of so much of educated white America. Racial slurs are unthinkable but people feel comfortable saying white trash. I'm taking this a bit far but I think it's important for people to realize that attitudes like this are alienating potential allies and are ultimately counter-productive. I have no problem with radical environmental messages just don't start the conversation with, "You suck."
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Permalink Reply by notoriousDUG on
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Dr. Doom is not a villain.
Dr. Doom is the benevolent dictator of Latveria; his poor public image is the result of an anti-Latveria campaign mounted by the Czechoslovakian Chamber of Commerce and that mangy curr Reed Richards.
Dr. Doom is a hero to millions.
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Permalink Reply by Tony Adams 7 mi (dirtbag hipstr) on -
Dr. Doom said:Well, it is better not to drive a car, all else being equal. All else isn't equal for lots of people, and they should drive cars.
For what it's worth I think there's a lot of zealotry of the newly converted in these conversations. My parents raised a whole family pretty much car free and vegetarian and they manage not to harangue people about these topics in every other conversation they have, even as they do try to get people to think about their lifestyle choices. As these things go the guy who's most hardcore about insisting everyone in a car is a murderer is the one most likely to end up tooling around Wilmette in a Ford Navigator, so whatever.
This is a conversation about an oil disaster on a bikey forum though, so it seems inevitable that there would be some discussion that spills over the line between civil discourse and haranguement.
Your family sounds really cool and you were lucky to be raised by them.
Expecting us to behave here as if we were at one of their parties is not realistic.
I'm already working on a draft of my next self-help book What Would Ma & Pop Doom Do?
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Permalink Reply by Adriana on
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Stan Lee never left...Doug, you broke my batmobile...broke or made better?
notoriousDUG said:Dr. Doom is not a villain.
Dr. Doom is the benevolent dictator of Latveria; his poor public image is the result of an anti-Latveria campaign mounted by the Czechoslovakian Chamber of Commerce and that mangy curr Reed Richards.
Dr. Doom is a hero to millions.
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